# LANGUAGE translation of https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ough-interview.html # Copyright (C) YEAR Free Software Foundation, Inc. # This file is distributed under the same license as the original article. # FIRST AUTHOR , YEAR. # #, fuzzy msgid "" msgstr "" "Project-Id-Version: ough-interview.html\n" "POT-Creation-Date: 2021-10-03 09:26+0000\n" "PO-Revision-Date: YEAR-MO-DA HO:MI+ZONE\n" "Last-Translator: FULL NAME \n" "Language-Team: LANGUAGE \n" "Language: \n" "MIME-Version: 1.0\n" "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=CHARSET\n" "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n" #. type: Content of: msgid "An interview for OUGH! - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><h2> msgid "An interview for OUGH!" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><p> msgid "" "This is a transcript of an interview with Richard Stallman conducted by " "Theodoros Papatheodorou <a href=\"#papatheodorou\"><sup>[*]</sup></a> " "in May, 2012." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "Richard Stallman, the free software activist and software developer, " "maintains a legendary status in the computing community. He addresses all " "our questions in an interview of epic proportions that he gave to OUGH! in " "two parts." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><h3> msgid "PART ONE" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "While working as a “system hacker” in MIT's AI Lab (i.e. a " "member of the team developing the Lab's own operating system) he experienced " "the profound change that overtook the software industry. Up until that " "point the general practice was for people to freely share, modify and reuse " "operating system software developed for the machines of the day. In the " "1970's the software industry stopped distributing the source code of these " "programs, making it impossible for computer users to study and modify them. " "Furthermore new copyright laws made it illegal to do so." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "The change struck him as unethical, and it affected him personally as the " "hacker community in which he thrived was broken up as two competing " "companies hired most of the talent in the Lab to develop nonfree products. " "Stallman went against the trend and decided to devote his life to the " "development of free software, where the user has the right to use the " "program in any way he sees fit, study the source code, modify it and even " "redistribute his modified versions to others. In 1984 he quit the MIT AI " "Lab and started developing GNU, the first free operating system which today, " "with the addition of a piece of software developed by a young Finish " "student, Linus Torvalds, forms GNU/Linux." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "Today, it is run on the majority of servers on the Internet, academic " "institutions, large enterprises, the military, and on desktops of millions " "of people around the world who have rejected software licenses that come " "with Windows and Mac OS. They choose to run a system that was started by " "Stallman and further developed by thousands of others over the Internet. " "GNU/Linux is superior to proprietary software from a technical point of " "view, and it's available gratis, but Stallman insists that these are " "welcome, but secondary features. Freedom is the key. We start the " "conversation talking about electronic rights." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "You've said “in the Internet age we have less rights that in the " "physical world.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Yes. For instance in The US, Internet service providers can disconnect you " "without going to court, they don't have to prove that there is a reason. " "And as a result they can censor you. If you want to print papers and stand " "on the street handing them out you can do that, you don't have to beg some " "company to “please cooperate” so that you can do it. But to do " "this on the Internet you need the cooperation of an ISP and a domain name " "registrar and maybe a hosting service, and if they don't like what you're " "doing or somebody threatens them who has a lot of power and doesn't like " "what you're doing, then they can just terminate your service and censor you." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "People should have a legal right to continued service of any of these kinds " "as long as they fulfill their side of the bargain. I believe it's the case " "in the US that the phone company can't arbitrarily disconnect your phone " "line as long as you continue paying your bill and so on, then they have to " "keep giving you phone service, it's not their choice. It should be the same " "with Internet connectivity. It shouldn't be their choice, they shouldn't be " "allowed to set their own conditions for continuing to give you service." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "They should provide the service as a public utility?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "Exactly." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "This dependence on a corporation also extends to financial transactions." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "That's the other aspect in which the digital world gives us less rights than " "the physical world. Suppose in addition to handing out papers on the " "street, you'd like to ask people to give money to the cause. They can give " "cash, and you can accept the cash, and you don't need the cooperation of any " "company in order to do so. Once you receive the cash, it's valid money, and " "you can spend it. But, to do the same thing in the digital world you need " "the services of a payment company, and those companies might arbitrarily " "disconnect you also." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "This is what happened with <em>WikiLeaks</em>. After it released " "information that embarrassed the US government (among others), " "<em>MasterCard</em> and <em>Visa</em> stop accepting donations for the site." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Exactly. <em>WikiLeaks</em> showed all these vulnerabilities because the US " "government decided to silence them and did everything they could to do so. " "It has caused a lot of harm although you can still access the " "<em>WikiLeaks</em> pages if you use the right domain name. They did manage " "to cut off most of the donations to <em>WikiLeaks</em>, and now it's having " "trouble operating." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "The organization has received a lot of bad publicity in the US. What's your " "view?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "<em>WikiLeaks</em> is doing something heroic. A lot of the press in the US " "is subservient to the government, this is true in a lot of countries. Or " "you might better say that it's subservient to business, but the US " "government works for business, so business wants to say good things about " "it. I think we need laws stopping the payment companies from disconnecting " "anybody's service, except when they prove that they have cause." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Technology has spawned new forms of control, but it has also resulted in new " "ways of protest, self-organization, and dissent. <em>Anonymous</em> stands " "out as an example of hacktivists." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "<em>Anonymous</em> does various different things. Most often " "<em>Anonymous</em> has a lot of people go to the door of an organization's " "website, they're a crowd, and so they may get in somebody's way. This is " "comparable to protesting in front of the organization's building in the " "physical world. And that we recognize as democratic political activity. So " "<em>Anonymous</em>' web protests are also democratic political activity. Of " "course, the forces of oppression want to define this as a crime rather than " "a protest, and they're using the change in technology as an opportunity " "effectively to criminalize protests." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Another thing that I think maybe <em>Anonymous</em>' members have done, is " "changing the text in the websites so as to criticize the organization whose " "site it is. This is the virtual equivalent of writing a critical slogan on " "a poster, which is pretty normal democratic political activity, but they " "call it “attacking” the site. The word “attack” is " "meant to give people the idea that this is something other than a political " "protest and put people in prison for protesting." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Among hackers the term “hacker” means something completely " "different than what it means to the general public. Could you explain that " "difference?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Starting from 40 years ago, when I joined the hacker community at MIT, I've " "been proud to call myself a hacker. I was hired by MIT to be a system " "hacker, meaning to make the system better. At the time, we used an " "operating system called ITS, the Incompatible Timesharing System, which had " "been developed by the team of hackers at the Artificial Intelligence Lab; " "and then they hired me to be part of the team. My job was to make the " "system better. Hacking had a more general meaning, which meant basically " "being playfully clever and pushing the limits of what was possible." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "Hacking doesn't even have to involve computers." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Hacking was not limited in improving the operating system. You could hack " "in any media, it didn't have to involve computers. Hacking, as a general " "concept, is an attitude towards life. What's fun for you? If finding " "playful clever ways that were thought impossible is fun then you're a " "hacker. One thing that was supposed to be impossible was breaking the " "security on computers. So some people who were inclined to be hackers got " "into that medium of breaking security. Then journalists found about hackers " "around 1981, misunderstood them, and they thought hacking was breaking " "security. That's not generally true: first of all, there are many ways of " "hacking that have nothing to do with security, and second, breaking security " "is not necessarily hacking. It's only hacking if you're being playfully " "clever about it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><h4> msgid "Software Patents" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Apart from electronic rights you are also a campaigner against software " "patents. Companies like Amazon, Google, and Apple, to name a few, are " "currently engaged in heated patent wars." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Patents are like land mines for software developers. It doesn't surprise me " "that a product such as an <em>Android</em> phone is accused of violating a " "tremendous number of patents, because it's a complicated software system. " "Any such complicated software system is going to have thousands of ideas in " "it, and if 10% of these ideas are patented that means hundreds of those " "ideas are patented. So any large program is likely to run afoul of hundreds " "of patents, and a system that's a combination of many programs is likely to " "run afoul of thousands of patents or more." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "As the law stands, these patents have an expiration date of 20 years from " "the moment they were filed." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "This is a very long time in the software field. Keep in mind that any time " "the technological context changes, then we need to adapt our way of doing " "many things to fit the new context. Which means they will all need new " "ideas, and if those new ideas are patented it's yet another disaster." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "What's special about software that you think it should not have the patent " "system apply to it?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Software is not the usual kind of case for patents. Let's look at the usual " "case: patents for something that's made in a factory. Those patents only " "affect the companies that have the factories and make the products. If they " "can all live with the patent system the rest of us have no reason to " "care. But with software, the problem is that it is much more complicated " "than anything else. The reason is software is inherently easier to design " "than physical products." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Software is simply mathematics, whereas physical products have to cope with " "the perversity of matter. And lots of unexpected things will happen, we " "have models to try to predict what will happen with physical systems, but " "they're not guaranteed to be right." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "With software you're using mathematical constructs, and they do what they're " "defined to do, and if they don't then you go to the compiler developer, and " "you say, “There's a bug in your compiler. Fix it so that this " "construct does what is supposed to do.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "You can't do that to the physical world, but you can do that to the compiler " "developer. Because of this it's easier to design software, but people push " "every ability to its limit. So you give people an easier kind of design, " "and they make bigger systems." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "So with software, a few people in a few years can design something that has " "a million elements in its design. That would be a mega-project if it had to " "be made with physical matter. So you make the system so complicated, and " "it's going to have lots of ideas in it, and that means that it's going to " "infringe lots of patents or at least be accused of infringing lots of " "patents." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "In other words, the burden of the patent system on software is much higher " "that it is on anything else. All software developers are in danger, and " "what you see with the patent wars that have broken out in the past year or " "so is if you develop a big complicated software package you're going to be " "sued." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "How is it different, say, to the patent for a drug?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Patents on medicine are another special case. Because when you force poor " "countries to have patents on medicines, which is what the World Trade " "Organization does, that makes medicine so expensive that people can't afford " "it and they die." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "The people who founded the WTO and its executives should be sent to the " "Hague to be tried for mass murder. We should organize to demand that our " "governments stop their support for the WTO; there are thousands of reasons " "for that. That organization's purpose is to give business more power to " "turn democracy into a sham." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "All so-called “free trade treaties” are actually aimed to weaken " "democracy and transfer political power to business. Therefore in the name " "of democracy we must abolish those treaties. There are good arguments that " "international trade can make both countries wealthier, and if these " "countries are democratic enough that the wealth will spread to everyone in " "both countries then they really are better off. However, the so-called " "“free trade treaties” are designed to make the countries less " "democratic and ensure that the wealth won't spread around." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "That means that they cancel out whatever benefit they might produce <em>even " "if the GNP of both countries increases</em>. What good is that if the " "increases all go to the rich, which is what they've done in the US <em>at " "least</em> since 1980." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "These patent wars have seen companies buying up an arsenal of software " "patents just to protect themselves from litigation…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "You know they might be, but it could be that <em>Google</em> has fewer " "patents because it hasn't existed so long. This may be one case where " "they're not all in the same position and not all interdependent, and if so, " "that would be unfortunate, because after all <em> Android</em> is the only " "smartphone operating system still in use that is mostly free software, and " "that at least gives us a starting point to try to run phones without " "proprietary software." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "If <em>Android</em> becomes dangerous and is crushed by patents, then we " "might never be able to run smartphones with free software." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Google is about to buy Motorola, which is not doing great financially, just " "in order to get access to its patents." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "This shows how the patent system becomes an obstruction to progress. When " "there are enough patents applying to one product it becomes hard to cope " "with the patent system at all. I hope that they (Google) succeed that way, " "in protecting themselves, because by doing so they are to some extent " "sheltering the free software community as well." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "Do you believe in the complete abolition of software patents?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Right, patents should not apply to software. Keep in mind that you can't " "always classify patents as either software patents or non-software patents. " "Sometimes the same patent will apply both to programs and to circuits. What " "I recommend is to change the law to say “by definition, if it's a " "program, it does not infringe any patents.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><h4> msgid "P2P File Sharing and the Music/Film Industry" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "You've often spoken against the use of the word “piracy.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "It's a smear term! They want to say that sharing is the moral equivalent of " "attacking ships. I don't agree with that position, so I don't call sharing " "“piracy.” I call it “sharing.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "I am not against profit in general. I'm against mistreating people. Any " "given way of doing business may or may not involve mistreating people." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "The example of the struggling artist is a ridiculous example because the " "existing system does very little for struggling artists. It's lousy. And " "if we just legalize sharing it won't make any difference to struggling " "artists. It might even help them." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "I think artists should release music with licenses that explicitly permit " "sharing, and some of them do. The point is that this argument against " "sharing is bogus." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "These giant multinational companies want more money for themselves, and they " "use the artist as an excuse. Little bit trickles down to the artists, and " "then there are few stars that get treated very well. But we don't need to " "make them richer." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "People should have the right to non-commercially share and redistribute " "music?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Music and any published work. Because sharing is good, sharing builds " "community, so sharing must be legal, now that sharing is feasible and easy." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Fifty years ago making copies and redistributing them non-commercially was " "so hard that it didn't matter whether it was legal or not. But now that " "it's so easy, to stop people from doing it can only be achieved using nasty, " "draconian measures, and even those don't always work." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "But, I guess, when they get nasty enough they may work, but why should we " "tolerate such nastiness?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "The music and film industry campaigned very hard on PIPA, SOPA, and ACTA." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "They want unjust laws all around the world, and in some countries they've " "succeeded getting them. I read that Ireland adopted a law similar to SOPA, " "at least described that way, but I don't know any details yet." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "These laws are an injustice. They are meant to subject people more to the " "media companies, so of course they're wrong, of course people hate them. " "The only question is; is there enough democracy left in any given country " "for people to be able to stop them?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "European citizens should take action and organize with others so as to get " "your country not to ratify ACTA and convince the European Parliament to vote " "it down. Save the world from that injustice." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Recently government agencies acted to shut down a few sites, such as " "Mega-Upload." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "I don't know whether Mega-Upload ultimately would deserve to be shut down. " "Remember Mega-Upload is a business, not an example of sharing. Sharing " "means non-commercial redistribution of exact copies. So I don't have a " "conclusion about Mega-Upload in particular." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "I do think there was something outrageous about the way it was shut down, " "before a court got to decide whether it's legal or not. But meanwhile " "there's been a law suit against (I guess it's called) Hotfile and the " "plaintiffs are claiming that “this has to be bad because it's similar " "to Mega-Upload which we shut down.” Which is a swindle because no " "court has decided whether Mega-Upload was legal. So they're citing this " "premature shutdown as proof that it's bad." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "I don't know, maybe it is bad. That's not the issue I'm strongly concerned " "with. I'm more concerned with peer-to-peer sharing because that's clearly " "good." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><h4> msgid "On Privacy" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "What about services like Facebook and Gmail?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "There are many issues of freedom in life, and having control of your " "computing is my contribution—I hope—to the idea of what human " "rights are. There are many other human rights people deserve, and many of " "them that apply in other areas of life carry over to the virtual world." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "So for instance, what are the bad things about Facebook? Well, it gives " "people a false impression of privacy. It lets you think that you can " "designate something as to be seen only by your friends, not realizing that " "it's actually to be seen by your Facebook friends and not your actual " "friends. And any of them could publish it, so it could be seen by anybody; " "it could be published in the newspaper. Facebook can't prevent that." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "What it could do is warn the users every time they start a session " "“Watch out, anything you post here—even if you say that only " "certain people should see it—it could get published due to events " "beyond your control. So think twice about anything you are going to post " "here. And remember that, the next time you try to apply for a job, the " "company might demand that you show everything in your account. Your school " "might also demand this. And if you really want your communication to be " "private, do not send it this way.” That's one thing that they should " "do." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Facebook is a surveillance engine and collects tremendous amounts of " "personal data, and its business model is to abuse that data. So you " "shouldn't use Facebook at all." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "And worse than that, Facebook even does surveillance on people that don't " "have Facebook accounts. If you see a “Like” button in a page " "then Facebook knows that your computer visited that page. And it's not the " "only company that's doing this; I believe that Twitter does this and Google+ " "does this, so it's a practice that's being imitated. And it's wrong no " "matter who does it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "The other thing that Facebook does, is that it uses people's pictures in " "commercial advertisement and gives them no way to refuse." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Eric Schmidt of Google fame said a couple of years ago that if you have " "something you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "That's ridiculous. What kind of things would you not anyone to know?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Maybe you are planning a protest. It is common nowadays for governments to " "label dissidents as terrorists and use electronic surveillance on them to " "sabotage their protests in order to effectively sabotage democracy." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "These social media also claim that they have had a very strong, subversive " "role in the Middle-East uprisings." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Maybe they do, but remember that these are not located in these " "Middle-Eastern countries so they have no strong motive to care to those " "governments." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "When, say, the US government wants to crush dissent these companies are " "likely to volunteer to help. If they don't, they will be compelled to " "anyway." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "You're also known to not use a mobile phone in order to protect your " "privacy." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Of course. Every mobile phone is a tracking and surveillance device. You " "could stop your phone from transmitting your GPS location if you've got a " "phone that's controlled by free software, although those are very few. " "Still the system can determine pretty accurately where the phone is even " "without any active cooperation from the phone." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "The US government says it should be able to collect all that information " "without even a warrant. Not even a court order, that is. So that shows how " "much US government respects human rights." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Some people have been using <em>TOR</em> and other software to hide their " "identities online." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "<em>TOR</em> is a very good thing. It helps protect people from Big " "Brother. And by Big Brother I mean perhaps the government of Iran or Syria " "or the US or any other country that doesn't recognize human rights." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><h3> msgid "PART TWO" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "The second part of the interview is about free software and its functions." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "In the second part of the interview we started off by speaking about free " "software and asked for a definition." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "Free software means software that respects user's freedom and user's " "community. With software there are just two possibilities; either the user " "controls the program or the program controls the users." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "The first case is free software because, in order for the users to have " "effective control of the programs, we need certain freedoms. Those freedoms " "are the criteria of free software." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "If the users don't control the program, then the program controls the users, " "and the developer controls the program. That means that program is an " "instrument of unjust power." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "So free software is software that respects user's freedom, and the idea of " "the free software movement is: nonfree software is an injustice, let's put " "an end to it. First let's escape, and then let's help everyone else " "escape. Let's put an end to that injustice." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "And by free of course, you don't just mean just “gratis,” you " "mean a lot more than that." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "I mean “free” as in freedom." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "You mentioned that there are certain freedoms that a piece of software " "should respect in order to be called free. What are these freedoms?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><dl><dt> msgid "Freedom zero" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><dl><dd> msgid "The freedom to run the program as you wish." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><dl><dt> msgid "Freedom one" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><dl><dd> msgid "" "The Freedom to study the source code and change it to make the program do " "your computing the way you wish." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><dl><dt> msgid "Freedom two" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><dl><dd> msgid "" "The freedom to help others, which means, redistribute exact copies when you " "wish." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><dl><dt> msgid "Freedom three" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><dl><dd> msgid "" "The freedom to contribute to your community—the freedom to distribute " "copies of your modified versions when you wish. (That's assuming that " "you've made modified version, because not everybody does that.)" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "And in order to support this you started a foundation, the Free Software " "Foundation." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Well, remember the goal is not just theoretical. I wanted to make it " "possible to use a computer in freedom. That's impossible if you're required " "to use nonfree software, and when I started this in 1983 that was the only " "way you could make a computer run. It had to have an operating system, and " "all the operating systems were proprietary, so you had to have nonfree " "software. (Proprietary means nonfree; they're synonymous.)" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "So to make freedom a real option it was necessary to develop a free software " "operating system. I wanted to make it a real possibility to use a computer " "and have freedom, and that meant launching a software developing project to " "develop all the software that you need to have, and that's an operating " "system called GNU. That's why there was actual work to be done. I wanted " "to go beyond simply stating a philosophical point in the abstract, and " "proceed to the practical work of making freedom a real possibility." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "And why do you feel that it's an inherent right of people to have access to " "the source code of a program?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Why should people be free? There are people that don't believe in freedom, " "and you can't logically argue with them. There's a fundamental difference " "in values. Once you recognize that having control over your software is the " "only way to live in freedom and use computers, if you want freedom you've " "got to insist on free software." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "But why is software unlike other products? When a vendor sells a chair he " "expects… [Stallman interrupts]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Software isn't like those things. Software does complicated things, and " "chairs don't. There's no way to design a chair to do things to you and " "control what you do. You normally sit on a chair and you control how you " "sit. The chair might be more or less comfortable, but it's not going to " "move you into a different building or dump you into the street or all sorts " "of other surprising things that you might not expect. It's not likely to " "have a needle hidden in it which would inject some kind of drug into you." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Software, on the other hand, does things far more complicated than that, and " "proprietary software commonly has malicious features comparable to that " "needle. In Windows, people have found spy features. There are also back " "doors which allow those who know how to control them to do things to the " "user." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "In other words, Microsoft can do absolutely anything to the users of " "Windows: it has total control over their computers, it can take anything " "from them, it can sabotage them in any way at all. If you use nonfree " "programs you are defenseless against its developer, and the developers " "basically say “you should simply trust us because of course a big " "corporation like this would never hurt you.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Apart from software, companies today try to interfere with what users can " "actually store in their devices. One of their tools for controlling the " "user is by using proprietary e-book formats." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "These are attacks on the traditional freedoms of readers. The example I " "would use is the Amazon “<a " "href=\"/philosophy/why-call-it-the-swindle.html\">Swindle</a>” (a play " "on words on Amazon's e-book tablet, the “Kindle”) because that's " "the one I know the most facts about. I call it the “swindle” " "because it is set up so that it swindles readers out of the traditional " "freedoms of readers of books." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "For instance, there is the freedom to own a book, which Amazon says the " "users can't. They can only get a license to read the book under Amazon's " "choice of conditions. Then there's the freedom to acquire the book " "anonymously, which is basically impossible for most well-known books with " "the “Swindle.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "They're only available from Amazon, and Amazon requires users to identify " "themselves, as it doesn't allow any way to pay anonymously with cash, the " "way you could buy a printed book. As a result Amazon maintains a database " "showing all the books that each user has ever read. That database is a " "threat to human rights. Then there's the freedom to give the book to " "someone else, perhaps after reading it, the freedom to lend the book to " "people when you wish, and the freedom to sell the book to a used book store." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Amazon eliminates these freedoms, partially by means of digital handcuffs " "(malicious features in the software designed to restrict users so they can't " "do these things) and partially through having said that users can't own a " "book, because Amazon makes them sign a contract saying they won't give away, " "lend or sell the book. And then there's the freedom to keep the book as " "long as you wish." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "There was an Orwellian twist to the tale…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Yes, because they deleted thousands of copies of “1984.” That " "was in 2009. Those copies were authorized copies until the day Amazon " "decided to delete them. After this, there was a lot of criticism, and so " "Amazon promised it would never do this again unless ordered to by the " "state. I do not find that comforting." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Any one of these makes the “Swindle”—an outrageous attack " "on our freedom and something that we must refuse to use. I don't know all " "the details about the competitors, but all of them share at least some of " "these unacceptable characteristics. Except for some where you can only " "install books that are in documented, non-secret formats." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Some of them maybe you could buy with cash somewhere if the author is " "selling copies. But the problem is, for digital books in general, there is " "no way to buy them for cash, or anonymously, because of the fact that there " "is no anonymous payment system on the Internet." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Bitcoin can be used for that, but Bitcoin is somewhat speculative because " "its value fluctuates. I don't think it has arrived at the point of being a " "convenient easy, anonymous, digital payment system." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "And it's not inherently anonymous. You can make a Bitcoin payment " "anonymously but you have to go to some extra trouble. I don't remember the " "details, but it was complicated enough that I didn't think I would do it. I " "would just continue not buying things online." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "There is another aspect to using nonfree software: you are being a bad " "neighbor as well." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "When you are asked to promise not to share with other people, what does that " "mean? You are being asked to betray your community. Now, what's your " "community? It's the people you know, the people you normally cooperate " "with. These software licenses invite you to betray the people you normally " "cooperate with." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "People use the terms free & open source indiscriminately, but they are " "different things." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "The term “open source” was coined in 1998 by people in the free " "software community. Remember that I started the free software movement in " "1983. By 1998 we had already achieved a considerable amount, there were " "many people writing free software and many people using it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "But not all of them agreed with the philosophy of the free software " "movement. Many of them, although they liked using and developing free " "software, considered our philosophy too radical and shocking. They coined a " "different term so that they could avoid any reference to our philosophy and " "avoid presenting the issue as a matter of justice versus injustice." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "So that's the purpose of the term “open source.” It's to talk " "about more or less the same category of software but without presenting it " "as an ethical issue. They don't say that if a program is not open source " "then it's an injustice and you must try to escape from it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "You've said in the past that the “the agenda of the free software " "movement has been subverted and even nearly lost.” Are you referring " "to cases such as Android (the mobile phone operating system)?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Android is just one example of the general tendency for most people in a " "community not to think of this in terms of freedom and justice. “Open " "source” is a large part of that too." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "And then look at the more than 1000 different distributions of the GNU/Linux " "OS: there around ten of them which are entirely free software, whose " "developers keep them free software as a matter of principle, and the other " "thousand-or-so include nonfree software or steer the user towards nonfree " "software, which in an instant grants legitimacy to the nonfree software and " "directly rejects the philosophy of the free software movement." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "And these speak a very loud voice. Most people coming into the community " "formulate their ideas of what it's all about based on those distributions " "and from other people who are happy with those, and basically only a " "minority of the free software community regards nonfree software as an " "injustice that we shouldn't tolerate. And these views, of course, " "propagate." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Strictly speaking Android is free software but it's not complete: in order " "to actually run a phone you need other software which isn't free. Every " "Android phone needs some nonfree software too." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "In addition, many of those are “tyrant products” which don't " "allow users to replace the system. So the software in them may have been " "made from free source code, but if the user can't replace the software, then " "those executable programs are not free." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Despite your technical achievements when it comes to coding, one of your " "greatest hacks was the inception of GNU GPL, a seminal license that " "influenced a lot of others." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Well, it's better to say that most other free software licenses were written " "as reaction against the ideas of GNU GPL." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "You see, the GNU GPL is a copyleft license. Every free software license, in " "order to be one, has to give you the four freedoms. The only way to get " "these freedoms is if the work is released under a license that gives them to " "you." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Copyright law today has been made too restricted, everything is copyrighted " "by default. Therefore the only way a program can be free is if the " "copyright holders put on a formal declaration that gives the four freedoms. " "This formal declaration is what we call a free software license." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "There are many ways to do that. Copyleft says that there is a condition " "placed on freedoms two and three (remember those were the freedoms to " "distribute exact copies and copies of your modified versions). The " "condition which is copyleft says that when you're distributing them, you " "have to do it respecting the same freedoms for the next person." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "So people who get copies from you, whether they're modified or not, must get " "the same four freedoms. If you put some of this code into another program " "with other code so that you've made changes, the conditions say that that " "entire program must give people the four freedoms, so you cannot convert the " "code into effectively proprietary with the excuse that you've made some " "changes in it. If you want to use any of this code in your program, you " "must make your whole program free." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "I did this because I realized that there was a choice: either people would " "be able to convert my code into nonfree software and use it to subjugate " "others, perhaps by making changes in it, or I would stop them from doing " "that." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "I realized then, if I didn't stop them, then my code would be converted to " "nonfree software, users would get my code, but they wouldn't get freedom, " "and that would be self defeating, it would defeat the whole purpose of " "writing the code, which was to make a system that they could use in freedom." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "So I invented a way to prevent that, and that way is copyleft." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "And how do these ideas of copyleft translate in today's world of web " "services and so called “cloud computing”?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "These issues apply to a program, which is a work you can have a copy of; but " "a service isn't something you get a copy of, so these issues don't apply to " "it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "On the other hand, when you're doing your own computing you must not use any " "web service to do that, because if you do so you lose control of that " "computing. If your computing is done on somebody else's server, he controls " "it and you don't." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "So the general issue that the user should have control on their computing " "does apply to web services but in a different way." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Despite it's practical advantages there isn't yet mass migration to free " "software in the public sector." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Proprietary software developers have lots of money. They use that money to " "buy governments. There are two ways that they can use money to influence " "governments." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "One way is by bribing specific officials. That's typically illegal but in " "many countries they can do it anyway." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "The other way is bribing the state itself or some other jurisdiction, and " "that's not illegal, but it is equally corrupt." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Despite being in dire financial straights, there is no national policy in " "Greece regarding the use of free software in the public sector." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "I don't want to focus narrowly on the agendas of possibly saving money " "because that's a secondary reason. The real reason why the Greek and any " "other government should insist on using free software is to have control of " "its own computing, in other words, its information and computing " "sovereignty. And this is worth spending money for." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Let's talk a bit about the role that free software should have in " "education. There's been a lot of debate recently." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Schools must teach exclusively free software because schools have a social " "mission: to educate good citizens for a strong, capable, independent, " "cooperating and free society. In the computing field that means teaching " "people to be skilled free software users." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Teaching the proprietary program is implanting dependence. Why do you think " "many software companies hand gratis copies of their nonfree programs to " "schools? Because they want schools to spread this dependence. That's the " "opposite of the social mission of schools, they shouldn't do it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "It's like giving students addictive drugs. The companies that make these " "drugs would love the schools to do that, but it's the school's " "responsibility to refuse even if the drugs are gratis. But there is a " "deeper reason too: for education and citizenship." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Schools are supposed to teach not just facts and skills, but also the spirit " "of good will. A habit of helping others. Every class should have this " "rule: “Students, if you bring software to class you may not keep it " "for yourself. You must share copies with the rest of the class, including " "the source code, in case someone here wants to learn about that software. " "Which means bringing nonfree software to class is not permitted.” For " "the school to set a good example, it must follow its own rule: it should " "bring only free software and share copies with everyone in the class." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "There is also another reason, for the sake of education, specifically " "education of the best programmers. For natural born programmers to become " "good programmers, they need to read lots of code and write lots of code. " "Only free software gives you the chance to read the code of large programs " "that people really use. Then you have to write lots of code. Which means " "you've got to write code in large programs." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "You have to start small. That doesn't mean writing small programs, because " "small programs do not even start to present the difficulties of large " "programs. So the way you start small is by writing small changes in " "existing large programs, and only free software gives you the chance to do " "that." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "So, for several reasons, doing an ethical and good education means doing " "education with free software and only free software. There are many who " "say, “Let's give the children Windows and the GNU+Linux system so that " "they can learn both.” This is like saying “let's give children " "at lunchtime some whiskey or ouzo as well as water, so they can learn " "both.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "The school is supposed to teach good habits, not addiction, not dependence. " "Microsoft knows that if you deliver computer with Windows and GNU+Linux, " "most of the kids in their families see Windows in use, so they are going to " "mostly use Windows." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "We need to change that, that's a bad habit of society, it's dependence. A " "school should actively put an end to that dependence. They should redirect " "society down to a path where people have freedom." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "But remember, the problem we want to correct is bigger than Microsoft. " "Apple is actually nastier than Microsoft, and it seems to be having a very " "disappointing success in the area of mobile devices with the iThings." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "And remember that the iThings pioneered a tyrannical practice that Microsoft " "only tried afterwards. That is designing products as jails, so that users " "can't even choose what applications to install freely, they can only install " "programs that have been approved by the dictator." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "And the horrible thing is that the evil genius Steve Jobs found a way to " "make lots of people clamor to be imprisoned by these products. He made " "jails and made them so shiny that people want to be locked up." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "There's been a tremendous PR industry keen to make him sound good, and Apple " "was working very hard to take advantage of his death. Of course Apple's PR " "worked while he was alive also, and there seem to be a lot of people in " "magazines and newspapers who want to direct the public attention away from " "these issues of freedom." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "Speaking of education, when you were part of the MIT AI Lab, you were part " "of a community. This was eventually broken up and you were the only one to " "go against the trend and not work for a big company developing proprietary " "software. What gave you the strength to fight, alone, like a guerrilla in " "the mountains?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "I was alone already. The community I've been part of had already split up " "in a rather hostile fashion. So I was most definitely alone no matter what " "I was going to do." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "But the other thing was that the revulsion of my mind to the idea of using " "and developing proprietary software meant that that was even worse. I had " "no alternative that would lead to a life I wouldn't be ashamed of and " "disgusted with." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "What were your major influences in your upbringing and education would you " "credit for influencing your belief system?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "I don't know. I guess the ideas of free software were formulated from the " "community around me at MIT, because we practiced free software, and they " "were doing that before I joined them." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "What was different for me was that whereas the others liked doing free " "software, but they were willing to do nonfree software when that was somehow " "more convenient or satisfied other goals such as to make the software " "successful or whatever." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "For me that was the thing that made it good rather than bad, and it was " "useless to throw that away. But it took years for me to formulate those " "ideas, something like ten years. In the mid-70's, even late 70's, I still " "hadn't reached the conclusion that nonfree software was simply unjust." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "You've described yourself as a pessimist so I won't ask you to look into " "your crystal ball…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "I wouldn't see anything, anyway. The future depends on you. If I could " "tell you what's going to happen then it would be futile for you to try to " "change it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "" "So, what software projects or social movements are you excited to see " "emerging?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "At the moment there isn't an existing software project that's making me " "excited, but I'm trying to convince someone to work on a particular, rather " "specialized piece of free software that is the last thing we need in order " "to make the use of ATI video accelerators possible in the Free World." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "As for social movements, I'm very excited by the Occupy movement, by the " "opposition to austerity in Greece and Spain, and the movements against " "corporate tax-evasion, and basically I'm excited to see more people fighting " "against the domination of society by the rich few." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><p> msgid "" "[*] Theodoros Papatheodorou <<a " "href=\"mailto:marinero@gmail.com\">marinero@gmail.com</a>> holds a PhD in " "Computer Science, and is teaching at the Athens School of Fine Arts." msgstr "" #. TRANSLATORS: Use space (SPC) as msgstr if you don't have notes. #. type: Content of: <div> msgid "*GNUN-SLOT: TRANSLATOR'S NOTES*" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><p> msgid "" "Please send general FSF & GNU inquiries to <a " "href=\"mailto:gnu@gnu.org\"><gnu@gnu.org></a>. There are also <a " "href=\"/contact/\">other ways to contact</a> the FSF. Broken links and " "other corrections or suggestions can be sent to <a " "href=\"mailto:webmasters@gnu.org\"><webmasters@gnu.org></a>." msgstr "" #. TRANSLATORS: Ignore the original text in this paragraph, #. replace it with the translation of these two: # #. We work hard and do our best to provide accurate, good quality #. translations. However, we are not exempt from imperfection. #. Please send your comments and general suggestions in this regard #. to <a href="mailto:web-translators@gnu.org"> # #. <web-translators@gnu.org></a>.</p> # #. <p>For information on coordinating and contributing translations of #. our web pages, see <a #. href="/server/standards/README.translations.html">Translations #. README</a>. #. type: Content of: <div><div><p> msgid "" "Please see the <a " "href=\"/server/standards/README.translations.html\">Translations README</a> " "for information on coordinating and contributing translations of this " "article." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "Copyright © 2012, 2021 Richard Stallman, Theodoros Papatheodorou" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "This page is licensed under a <a rel=\"license\" " "href=\"http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/\">Creative Commons " "Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License</a>." msgstr "" #. TRANSLATORS: Use space (SPC) as msgstr if you don't want credits. #. type: Content of: <div><div> msgid "*GNUN-SLOT: TRANSLATOR'S CREDITS*" msgstr "" #. timestamp start #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "Updated:" msgstr ""