# LANGUAGE translation of https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/rms-on-radio-nz.html # Copyright (C) YEAR Free Software Foundation, Inc. # This file is distributed under the same license as the original article. # FIRST AUTHOR , YEAR. # #, fuzzy msgid "" msgstr "" "Project-Id-Version: rms-on-radio-nz.html\n" "POT-Creation-Date: 2024-03-13 14:57+0000\n" "PO-Revision-Date: YEAR-MO-DA HO:MI+ZONE\n" "Last-Translator: FULL NAME \n" "Language-Team: LANGUAGE \n" "Language: \n" "MIME-Version: 1.0\n" "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8\n" "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n" #. type: Content of: msgid "RMS on Radio New Zealand - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><h2> msgid "RMS on Radio New Zealand" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><p> msgid "" "Transcript (by Jim Cheetham) of an interview between Kim Hill (presenter) " "and Richard Stallman in October 2009; originally published on <a " "href=\"https://web.archive.org/web/20111114203543/http://nb.inode.co.nz/articles/rmsrnz2/index.html\"> " "<cite>iNode: Nota Bene</cite></a>." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><h3> msgid "Interesting sections" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t0\">[00:00] Introduction</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t1\">[00:40] Surveillance</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t2\">[01:19] Terrorism and 9/11</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t3\">[04:30] Barack Obama</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t4\">[06:23] Airline Security</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t5\">[08:02] Digital Surveillance</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t6\">[10:26] Systematic Surveillance</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t7\">[12:20] Taxi surveillance</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t8\">[14:25] Matters of Principle—cellphones</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t9\">[15:33] Free Software and Freedom</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t10\">[17:24] Free Trade treaties</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t11\">[20:08] Cars, microwaves and planes</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t12\">[21:05] Copying books</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t13\">[25:31] E-books & supporting artists</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t14\">[28:42] Micropayments</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t15\">[30:47] A simplistic political philosophy?</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t16\">[32:51] Income</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t17\">[33:48] Digital handcuffs—Amazon Kindle</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t18\">[36:13] Buying books</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "<a href=\"#t19\">[37:16] Social networking</a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><ul><li> msgid "" "<a href=\"#t20\">[38:08] The <abbr title=\"Anti-Counterfeiting Trade " "Agreement\">ACTA</abbr></a>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[00:00]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "KH" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "We spoke to Richard Stallman a while ago last year about his campaign for " "Free Software. He's a hero, of course, of the movement; launched the Free " "Software Foundation, campaigns against software patents and extensions of " "copyright laws. His battle is, as he told us last year, against what he " "calls extreme capitalism. His GNU operating system with Linux was the first " "Free operating system that could run on a PC. Richard Stallman says " "“it's all about freedom,” a cause which goes beyond software; " "and we could talk about the others he's identified, surveillance and " "censorship, because he joins me now, hello." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[00:40]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "RMS" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Hello" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Let us talk about surveillance and censorship. I've been looking at your " "personal website and you're talking about fingerprinting of air travelers, " "for example, which is something you're very hot about." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Yes, I urge people to refuse to go to the US where they would be mistreated " "that way." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Why is that mistreatment, do you think?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Because it's too much information to collect about people who aren't " "criminals. And by the way for the same reason I will not ever go to Japan " "again unless they changed that policy, which makes me sad, but one " "must…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[01:19]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "It's not justifiable in order to make sure that terrorists aren't getting on " "the plane?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "There's no need. Basically terrorism, and by the way we don't really know " "who was behind the September 11th attacks in the US, we don't know whether " "it was a bunch of Muslim fanatics, or it was a bunch of Christian fanatics " "and the White House. We do know that Bush corrupted and sabotaged the " "investigation when he was unable to prevent it from happening." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "So, are you an advocate of the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "I can't say … first of all I think it's unfair—we know that the " "attack was a conspiracy. All the theories are conspiracies." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well, all right, the conspiracy theory for example, that has the Bush " "administration staging the 9/11 attack in order to justify…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "I don't know. The only way there could ever be proof of that is with a real " "investigation, but when you have a government not allowing a real " "investigation of a horrible crime then you've got to suspect that they're " "hiding something. Now I can't know for certain what they're hiding, but I " "want a real investigation to be carried out with the power to subpoena " "anyone possibly concerned, including Bush, and make those people testify " "under oath and show them no deference that everyone else wouldn't get." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Putting 9/11 aside then because we haven't got time here to go into the " "various theories about what could possibly have caused 9/11, there is " "undoubtedly a thing called terrorism." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Yes, but it's a minor problem. More people died in the US in September 2001 " "from car accidents than from a terrorist attack, and that continues month " "after month, but we don't have a Global War on Accidents, so basically " "politicians used a real danger, but not the world's biggest danger, as an " "excuse for what they want to do, which is … and remember that these " "governments are much more dangerous, it's quite clear that Bush's invasion " "of Iraq was far more destructive than anything non state-sponsored " "terrorists have been able to do—that's assuming that those terrorists " "in September 2001 were not state-sponsored, which we don't know—but " "the point is, what Bush did by invading Iraq, using those attacks as an " "excuse, was tremendously worse and we must remember than governments gone " "amok can do far more damage than anybody not state-sponsored." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "After all, governments have a lot more men under arms and they don't have to " "hide the fact that they have men under arms, so they're in a much bigger " "position to do damage, so we must be concerned about letting them have too " "much power. A world in which the police can easily do whatever they'd like " "to do is a world in which the police are a threat." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[04:30]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Last time we spoke, and we were talking about the issue of Free Software, " "but specifically in relation to that you doubted that President Bush's " "successor, who we now know is Barack Obama, would be pretty much any " "different from Bush." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "He's a little different, but I have to say he's small change. On human " "rights issues he's not very different. He's still in favor of keeping " "people in prison, without charges, indefinitely, and you can't get much " "worse than that in terms of human rights." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Well except he's addressing Guantanamo Bay." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well that's just one of the places where it's done, it's done also in Bagram " "in Afghanistan, and I really don't see why it would be better to move those " "people to Bagram. What has to be done is charge them or release them. " "They're entitled to that." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Yeah, they may be entitled to that but he's also democratically elected " "President who…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "That doesn't mean he's entitled to violate human rights." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "No, but would the American people be in favor of the release of " "those…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "I don't know." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "… that's got to be a consideration." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "No it's not, if they're not that just makes them responsible." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "I know you're…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "I don't think I can excuse massive violations of human rights by saying that " "the public is maddened and supports it. Especially, why are they so " "maddened? Because of a constant propaganda campaign telling you “Be " "terrified of terrorists, throw away your human rights and everyone else's " "because you're so scared of these terrorists.” It's disproportionate, " "we have to keep these dangers in their proportion, there isn't a campaign " "saying “be terrified of getting in a car” but maybe there ought " "to be." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[06:23]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Most airline security, getting back to the fingerprinting issue, you've said " "is just for show." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "A lot of it is, not all of it is, I'm very glad that they have reinforced " "the cabin doors so that hijackers can't get at the pilots, OK, that's a " "sensible measure." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "But are you? I would have thought that you would have said “why would " "they spend money reinforcing the cabin doors because hijackers are a minor " "issue.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "I'm not against spending a little bit of money." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "You're saying that that issue isn't an infringement of human rights." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "OK, and I don't mind spending some money for safety, I even make some " "compromises you know on issues of rights, I'm not saying police shouldn't be " "able to get a search warrant, but they should have to go to a Judge, to " "present probable cause, to keep them in check because police are very " "dangerous when they run amok, as people discovered a few months ago in " "London, when the police did run amok, and they killed somebody who was " "trying to walk home past a protest, and he couldn't get home because the " "police were just deliberately blocking the streets, and then they hit him. " "And then they lied about it too, which they typically do. Whenever the " "police attack someone they lie about him, they lie about what they did, and " "they lie about what he was doing, to make it sound that they were justified " "in mistreating him in the first place, it's standard practice, they're like " "an armed gang." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[08:02]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "If you don't agree with surveillance, is there any way that you would accept " "that it might be quite a handy thing, CCTV…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Wait a second, your view of surveillance is oversimplifying things, what I " "see happening with computers is they make possible a form of total " "surveillance which wasn't feasible in the past, even governments like " "Romania under Ceaușescu, or East Germany with the Stasi, they did a " "lot of surveillance but it took a lot of people working on it and even then " "it was limited what they could actually watch and record because it was so " "hard. Now, we're entering a kind of surveillance society that has never " "been seen before…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "You're talking about digital surveillance." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Yes, but as people do more things using digital technology it becomes easy " "to keep a record of everything everyone has done, things that weren't done " "in the past and still aren't done with other media, there's no record of who " "sends a letter to who for all letters, it just isn't done. But there are " "records in many countries of who sends an email to whom and those records " "can be saved for years and we don't know that they'll ever be disposed of." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "If you think that governments are not to be trusted, which is a legitimate " "position of course, and if you think that the police are not to be trusted, " "again a legitimate position, why can't you feel happier about digital " "surveillance and CCTV surveillance given that it may well give the people " "more protection." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Oh, I'm all in favor of the right to make and record videos, such as when " "you're on the street or when you're watching a protest or whatever, I'm " "concerned about systematic surveillance." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "What is that, systematic surveillance?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well suppose the police set up a camera that always watches the street, and " "connects it to a face recognition program and make a database of everyone " "who passes, that's systematic surveillance. Now if you walk down the street " "and maybe you see somebody you know and you recognize him, that's not " "systematic surveillance, that's a whole bunch of people knowing something, " "there's nothing wrong with that, that's just what life is." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[10:26]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "What makes systematic surveillance more sinister to you?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Because we know that there's a tendency for many different governments to " "treat dissenters as terrorists, and investigate them using laws that were " "set up supposedly to help them prevent terrorism. We know also that they " "tend to sabotage political activities, and this is dangerous." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "What's wrong with being investigated?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well, it depends if the government's investigating you because you're a " "political dissident, there are a lot of things they could do to harass you. " "One thing I remember was in England, a busload of protesters, they were on " "they way to a protest, the police stopped their bus and drove them away from " "the protest, and they cited a law that had been passed to supposedly prevent " "terrorism. Well this is sabotaging political activity. And then another " "thing that happens I know in England, is people have been prosecuted for " "copies of texts that they have, you know reading is sometimes illegal, it's " "really dangerous. What we see is a global tendency for governments to bring " "out the worst side of themselves with terrorism as the excuse, so we must be " "on guard against that, that's potentially a much bigger danger than the " "terrorists it's supposed to protect us from. I don't have to say that they " "don't exist, or that they're no danger at all." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "No, the difficulty is being on guard against the danger that you've cited, " "without giving quarter to…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[12:20]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Ah, no I don't see it's any problem at all. Police have lots of things they " "can do to investigate people and it's more all the time and whenever there's " "a specific reason to suspect particular people they can basically get " "permission to search whatever. So OK, that's necessary, but beyond that " "we've got to be careful not to go, and the digital surveillance society goes " "far beyond that, there's a tendency to keep records of everything, check " "everything. In New York City for instance a taxi driver told me he had been " "required to install a camera which transmits by radio people's faces to the " "police where they run face recognition over it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "I don't think that should be allowed. I don't mind if they have a system " "that records people's faces and keeps it for a week in case somebody attacks " "the taxi driver, that's not going to do anything to us if we don't attack " "taxi drivers. We can make use of surveillance technology in ways that don't " "threaten people's rights but we've got to make sure we use them in those " "ways." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "How come you can justify people being treated as if they're going to attack " "taxi drivers…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "But you see there the point is, those are not looked at unless there's a " "crime to investigate and then they get erased if it's done right, but the " "way it's actually being done in New York City is they're sent to the police, " "and the police keep track of who goes where, and that's what scares me. " "Having all the information about what you do available to the police for " "years in the past whenever they want to look. Well part of what I do about " "this is I don't buy things with credit cards unless it's something where " "they demand to know who I am anyway, I don't use a credit card or any " "digital method, I use cash, and that way Big Brother's not making a database " "of every place I've been, that I bought anything in, what I bought." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[14:25]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "As a matter of principle, rather than…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "As a matter of principle. It's not an issue of convenience." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "You don't do quite a lot of things actually." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Yeah, I don't carry a cellphone because I really don't want to be telling " "Big Brother where I am all the time, every place I go." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Is that why?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Yes, that's why. Well now there's another reason. Today, cellphones are " "powerful computers and there's no way to run one without proprietary " "software." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "I thought that would be your main reason." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Actually there is one you can get, although they're not producing it " "anymore, it didn't work all that well, it's Mark One. So that's another " "issue, but that didn't exist, that issue wasn't there when cellphones first " "came out, people didn't install programs in them, they were just fixed " "appliances, but they have always raised the issue that they're constantly " "saying where you are, and I just don't want to participate in a system like " "that, I think people shouldn't. It would be very convenient for me to have " "a cellphone, I'm not one of those people who would, who says “I resent " "the fact that people can call me,” it's convenient when people can " "call me, but I'm not going to do it that way." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[15:33]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "It's interesting that your battle for Free Software and the issues of " "freedom that you identify intersect. They didn't start out being the " "same—or did they?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well they didn't start out being the same. Pervasive digital surveillance " "wasn't a big problem twenty-seven years ago." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "But the people who were in charge were still the people who were in charge, " "the people who you identified as the people you didn't want to see…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well actually they're not the same people. Proprietary software's mostly " "controlled by various private entities that are developers, maybe Apple, " "Microsoft, Adobe, Google, Amazon, they're all distributing proprietary " "software." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "I would have thought you'd identify them all as forces of extreme " "capitalism." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well I'm sorry, when I say extreme capitalism I'm talking about a " "philosophy, and that philosophy says “the market should control " "everything, everything should be for sale, and business should be allowed to " "dominate politics and get the laws it wants,” which is very different " "from mere capitalism, which says “within a society which we set up to " "protect peoples rights and so on, there are lots of things that people " "should be free to do, and make businesses to do them, as they wish.” " "That difference is why today's form of capitalism is running wild and why we " "see free exploitation treaties which basically undermine democracy and turn " "it in to a sham." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "What are you talking about there?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[17:24]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well, the so-called Free Trade treaties, which I don't like to call that, " "they're designed to transfer power from our governments to companies. They " "all do this in one way, which is they let companies threaten to move to " "another country, or move their operations; and so any time the people are " "demanding that a government protect the environment, or the public health, " "or the general standard of living, or anything else that's more important " "than just who's going to buy and sell what, companies can say “we're " "against this, and if you do this we'll just move our operations " "elsewhere” and the politicians now have a wonderful excuse for why " "they're not going to do it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Of course it was they who decided to adopt that treaty in the first place " "which they shouldn't have done. But then a lot of these treaties go beyond " "that, and they explicitly deny democracy. Now the US had a law that said it " "wouldn't sell tuna—you weren't allowed to sell tuna in the US if it " "had been caught in a way that endangered dolphins. Well that law had to be " "scrapped because of the World Trade Organization, that's just one example." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Because it was regarded as a trade barrier." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Exactly. Then NAFTA, which is between the US, Canada and Mexico, allows " "companies to sue the government if they believe some law reduces their " "profits; effectively saying the highest value in society is how much money a " "company can make, and anything that gets in the way of that, we owe them." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Of course, we're in favor of Free Trade here, Richard, because we rely on " "it…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well I'm not in favor of free trade beyond a certain point. The people who " "are in favor of Free Trade say that it can make everyone more prosperous and " "that's true up to a point, and that point is where it starts subverting " "democracy. But the point of these treaties is precisely to stretch free " "trade to the point where it does subvert democracy. And you can see " "business think-tanks reporting how they expect in a few decades governments " "will have much less control over what goes on in the world and business will " "have more control. What they're predicting is essentially that these " "treaties will march on." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[20:08]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "One of the other things you don't do, is you don't drive a car, is that " "right?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "No, that's not true, I don't own a car. I do have a driver's license." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "OK, one of the other things you don't do is you don't own a car." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Yeah, well that's to save money. I live in a city." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "No philosophy." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "No, I don't think it's wrong to own a car, it's good if we all drove " "somewhat less." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "I thought that it was because of the proprietary software in cars." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Now that's an interesting issue. I have appliances, I have a microwave oven " "which might have some proprietary software in it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "And you fly in planes." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Yeah. Well I don't own a plane though. I don't boycott everybody who uses " "proprietary software. If a company uses proprietary software I say that's " "too bad for them, but I'm not going to punish them by boycotting them, what " "I will try to do is explain to them why they deserve to have control over " "their computing rather than letting somebody else control their computing." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[21:05]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "What are you going to tell the Library and Information Association " "Conference with regard to copyright and community?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well, I'm going to explain why copyright law today is an injustice, because " "it forbids sharing, and sharing is absolutely essential. People must be " "free to share, so the New Zealand Copyright Law that was adopted about a " "year ago, and only one of several unjust things in it was temporarily " "withdrawn, that went in the wrong direction, but it was already too " "restrictive, people must be free to non-commercially share exact copies of " "any published work." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "So just let me … how would this work, for a moment? I write a book, I " "spend, you know, five years of my life writing a book." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Well who knows, maybe you do it in a month." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Maybe I don't do it in a month." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "The point is, you do it by choice. People wrote books before there was " "copyright. I think you're going about this backwards. It's your choice " "whether to spend time writing, and the main reason most writers spend their " "time writing is because they have something they say they want to write and " "they hope people will appreciate it. It's only a few who get enough money " "that it starts to corrupt their spirit." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Don't most societies want to, and they don't do it fantastically " "efficiently, but to some extent they try to encourage people to write." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Oh, I'm all in favor of encouraging people to write." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Now how would you encourage people to write?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well first of all remember that I'm not talking about abolishing copyright " "on artistic works, I'm saying that people must be free to non-commercially " "share them. Commercial use would still be covered by copyright as it is " "now." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "If I can print off a whole book and pass it on, and they pass it on, pass it " "on, pass it on, pass it on, as an author I'm not going to sell many." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well that may be so, or may not be. I've seen people claim that it's only " "works that are bestsellers that are likely to sell less, because remember if " "you're not a big hit and people pass along copies what they're doing is " "getting you more fans. If you're not a bestseller then what you mainly want " "commercially is exposure, and this is a way you'll get more exposure, and " "without having to pay for it either, and without having to give control to a " "company that would take most of the profits anyway." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "So hang on, the only reason an author would want exposure would be to " "increase the sales of their next book." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Oh no, no no no no no. Only the ones who've been morally corrupted and are " "no longer yearning to be read and appreciated, that's what they start out " "wanting, and a few, only a few get rich, and then those few who get rich, " "when people are paid to do something that they originally did from pleasure " "or a yearning, they tend to start wanting the money more, and the thing that " "they used to yearn to do, they want less." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "So if being read and appreciated is what authors want…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well they start out wanting. Those who have got rich, some of them want to " "be rich." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well we'll forget about those because you're implying they write bad books " "as a consequence." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "No I'm not saying that they're all bad, I'm not making a simple " "generalization like that, I say that their feelings have been corrupted, " "that doesn't necessarily mean their books are bad, I enjoy some of them. " "The point is that that's not a typical author." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "But a typical author you seem to be condemning to even more penury." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Oh no I'm not, you're mistaken." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "If they cannot sell the book…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "You're mistaken, you're making a projection which people who know more about " "this disagree. Cory Doctorow who has been a bestselling author puts all his " "works on the net and he doesn't even think he sells less." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "So people still go out and buy the hard copy from the shop?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Yes they do." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Even though people can pass his book from hand to hand willy-nilly." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[25:31]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "They can do that anyway you know with printed books, that's the motive for " "e-books. E-books are designed to stop you from doing things like lending " "the book to your friend or selling it to a used bookstore and borrowing it " "from a public library. They're designed to turn public libraries into " "retail outlets. And the reason they do this is they want to establish a " "pay-per-read universe. They're following the twisted logic that says the " "most important thing is how much money people pay and everybody who reads " "had a debt, now owes money and he has to be made to pay. I think this is " "entirely twisted and I'm against it, because the freedom to share must be " "respected." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "But I have other proposals for ways to support artists. And remember the " "current system mostly supports corporations, so I don't think it works very " "well. And it makes a few authors quite rich, and those get treated with " "great deference by the corporations, and the rest basically get ground into " "the dust. My proposals—I have two, and another that combines " "them—one proposal is support artists using taxes, it could either be a " "specific tax on Internet connectivity or general funds, it wouldn't be a " "tremendous amount of money by comparison with other government expenditures, " "and then you divide this among artists by measuring their popularity, but " "you don't divide it in linear proportion, 'cos if you did that a large " "portion of this money would go to making superstars richer and it's not " "needed, what I propose is take the cube root of the popularity." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "How do you assess their popularity?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "You could do it with polling." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "How polling? Internet polling?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "All sorts of polling, there's public opinion polling and anything, use a " "sample, the point is you don't ask everybody, nobody's required to " "participate. But you use a sample, and you use that to measure popularity." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "I'm just holding that thought, popularity. You're equating popularity with " "merit?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "No I'm not, but I'm saying you don't want bureaucrats to be deciding who " "gets these funds. So this is one way, you could do it by polling, after all " "the current system bases it on popularity to some extent. Take the cube " "root, so if A is a thousand times as popular as B, A will get ten times as " "much money as B, so this way it's the counterpart to a progressive income " "tax. So this way, yes if you're tremendously successful you do get more, " "but you don't get tremendously more, and most of the money goes to support a " "large number of artists of mid-range popularity." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "And tell me again, where does the money come from?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "It comes from taxes. It comes from all of us." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "General taxes." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Could be general taxes, or a specific special tax. Either way is OK." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[28:42]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Why don't you just ask people, if you're basing it on popularity, why don't " "you just ask people just to send in the money?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well that's my other proposal. If every player had a button to send a " "dollar I think people would do it often, after all the main reason we don't " "do it is how much trouble it is. It's not that you or I would miss a " "dollar, I often would be glad to send a dollar to some artists, but how am I " "going to do it? I need to use a credit card and identify myself and I need " "to find where to send it to them and that's a lot of work. Well, this " "button, which I hope would be implemented in an anonymous way, would take " "away all the work, it would be totally painless to send a dollar, and then I " "think a lot of people would do it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "What about getting rid of taxes entirely, and giving us all the power to " "direct…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "I'm not against taxes." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "I'm not suggesting you are, but I'm asking you why not?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Because we need to make sure that rich people pay their fair share, which is " "a bigger share than what poor people have to pay, to keep society going. We " "need a welfare state, at least at our current level of technology and the " "way society works, we need a welfare state, and the rich shouldn't be exempt " "from funding it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Does it not matter that your popularity contest for artists may let the rich " "completely off the hook?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well, I'm not sure it matters. Supporting artists is desirable but it's not " "a matter of life and death in the same way that giving poor people food and " "shelter and medical care is, whether they're artists or not." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "I don't know, I think that if you look at society it's made up of all sorts " "of things that are contingent on one another for the health of the society." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[30:47]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Yes, but I don't want to have one answer for every question in society. I'm " "not a proponent of a very simplistic political philosophy, and I hope that " "that's visible. There are such people." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Yes, I'm sure there are. No, God no, I would never ever accuse you of being " "an advocate of a simplistic political philosophy :-)" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "There are people who are totally opposed to copyright and criticize me for " "not going far enough, but what I say is that works whose use is to do " "practical jobs, these works must be Free in the sense of the Four Freedoms " "that define Free Software. You've got to be free to republish them, to " "modify them, publish your modified versions, because this is what the users " "of the works need in their lives. But of course there are lots of works " "that don't, that contribute to society in other ways, they're not functional " "practical works." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd><p> msgid "" "Art for instance, the contribution of an artistic work is in the impact it " "makes on your mind, not in whatever practical job you might figure out how " "to do with it sometime. And then there are works that state people's " "opinions and thoughts and what they've seen, which is a different way that " "works can contribute to society, and I have different recommendations for " "these. But the freedom to non-commercially share, that must be respected, " "and that's why the new New Zealand Copyright Law and the old one were both " "unjust, and the purpose of the new one is, specifically the punishing people " "by disconnecting them from the Internet, the purpose of that is to stop " "people from sharing, and it's wrong to stop people from sharing, so even if " "they work out a different way of achieving this unjust goal, the goal is " "what's wrong, not only the nasty methods that are, because only draconian " "methods can stop people from sharing." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[32:51]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "How do you make your income, if you don't mind me asking?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "From speeches; not all my speeches, a lot of them I give unpaid, and a lot " "of them I get paid." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "And that's how you make your income?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Yes. I don't spend a lot of money." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "And you wouldn't consider that being paid for something you should share " "happily? It's a donation." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "I'd generally try to avoid having any admission charges. Once in a while I " "do agree to give a speech at a conference where they're charged people to " "register but often I will ask them to let the public in to my speech. So, " "in general I try to have it open to the public without charge because I want " "as many people as possible to come because I'm working for a cause, after " "all, and I want to do as much good as I can for this cause." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[33:48]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Do you think that you're winning?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "You know, gradually we are. But of course we still have a lot of " "opposition, we still have a lot to fight. You know, there's something else " "in the New Zealand Copyright Law that was adopted a year ago, which is " "unjust, and it prohibits in some cases the distribution of Free Software " "that can break digital handcuffs. More and more products are designed with " "digital handcuffs, that is features to stop the user from doing things. So " "nowadays when I hear about a new product or a new service my first thought " "is “what's malicious in that? How is it designed to restrict what you " "can do?” And these products are very malicious, for instance there is " "the Amazon Kindle, it's an e-book reader, and they call it the Kindle to " "express what it's designed to do to our books [<a href=\"#f1\">1</a>]." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "That's not true :-)" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "But it does express what it will do with our books. The point is this " "product does surveillance, it forces the user to identify herself to buy a " "book, and Amazon has a list, knows exactly what everybody has bought. Then " "it is also designed to restrict the user, to stop people from sharing, from " "lending books to their friends, from selling them to a used bookstore, and " "various things that with printed books we can lawfully do. Even worse, it " "has a back door, that is Amazon can send commands remotely and do things to " "you, we found out about this a few months ago." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Do what to you?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "Well Amazon sent a command to all the Kindles, ordering them to erase all " "copies of a particular book, namely <cite>1984</cite> by George Orwell. " "Somebody said that they had burned up the year's supply of irony by choosing " "that book. So now we know Amazon can remotely erase your books. Now " "Amazon, after doing this, promised it would never do that again, but our " "freedom to keep a book for as long as we want, and read it as many times as " "we want, should not be dependent on any company's goodwill." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Where do you get your books from?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[36:13]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "I buy books from bookstores, yes I go to a store and I say “I want " "that one.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "And you hand money over for it? Even though you think that that's not " "particularly a good system?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Well I didn't say that's a bad system." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "Well aren't you handing money over to the corporates rather than the author?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "To a large extent yes, but I'm not going to refuse to buy just because of " "that, with books actually typically some of the authors do get some money. " "With academic textbooks they generally don't." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "As a matter of interest we've been talking about freedoms, surveillance and " "digital monitoring, does the extraordinary rise of social networking…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "I buy CDs of music as well even though in that case I know the musicians are " "not going to get paid, so I'd rather send them some money." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "OK. And do you?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "I wish I could, I don't have a way, so I try to convince people to set up " "the system to make it easy." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[37:16]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "I'm sure they're sending us their addresses as you speak. Very briefly, the " "rise of social networking, is that a concern in terms of privacy for you?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "It is, and I don't use those sites, it's more because I don't have time, I'm " "busy doing other things. I don't think social network sites are necessarily " "bad but they lead people into foolish activities. So I think an ethical " "social network site should warn people, and every time you connect to it it " "should warn you, “anything you post here might get known to the public " "no matter how you set up settings about supposed privacy. So if you don't " "want it published, you shouldn't say it here.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "That's a nice warning. Thank you, it's very nice to talk to you Richard " "Stallman." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dt> msgid "[38:08]" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "We didn't even mention ACTA, the secret treaty that New Zealand is " "negotiating to restrict its citizens, and they won't; they tell publishers " "what's in the text that they're working on, but they won't tell the public. " "So the point is that the; many governments, including of course the US are " "conspiring in secret to impose new restrictions on us relating to copyright " "and part of their latest propaganda is they call sharing " "“counterfeiting.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "" "But the point is that this treaty will have provisions to restrict the " "public, we think, but they won't tell us. This is called Policy Laundering, " "this general practice; instead of democratically considering a law, which " "means the public gets to know what's being considered, gets to talk to the " "legislators, sees how they voted and so on, in secret they negotiate a " "treaty and then they come back and they say “we can't change the " "treaty and we obviously can't refuse it, so we're all now, we've just " "arranged for our country to be stuck with this law.”" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><dl><dd> msgid "And we may well look at that law in a couple or three weeks time." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><h3> msgid "Footnote" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><ol><li> msgid "" "[2019] We call it <a href=\"/philosophy/why-call-it-the-swindle.html\">the " "Swindle</a> because it's designed to swindle readers out of the traditional " "freedoms of readers of books." msgstr "" #. TRANSLATORS: Use space (SPC) as msgstr if you don't have notes. #. type: Content of: <div> msgid "*GNUN-SLOT: TRANSLATOR'S NOTES*" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><p> msgid "" "Please send general FSF & GNU inquiries to <a " "href=\"mailto:gnu@gnu.org\"><gnu@gnu.org></a>. There are also <a " "href=\"/contact/\">other ways to contact</a> the FSF. Broken links and " "other corrections or suggestions can be sent to <a " "href=\"mailto:webmasters@gnu.org\"><webmasters@gnu.org></a>." msgstr "" #. TRANSLATORS: Ignore the original text in this paragraph, #. replace it with the translation of these two: # #. We work hard and do our best to provide accurate, good quality #. translations. However, we are not exempt from imperfection. #. Please send your comments and general suggestions in this regard #. to <a href="mailto:web-translators@gnu.org"> # #. <web-translators@gnu.org></a>.</p> # #. <p>For information on coordinating and contributing translations of #. our web pages, see <a #. href="/server/standards/README.translations.html">Translations #. README</a>. #. type: Content of: <div><div><p> msgid "" "Please see the <a " "href=\"/server/standards/README.translations.html\">Translations README</a> " "for information on coordinating and contributing translations of this " "article." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "Transcript Copyright © 2009, 2010 Jim Cheetham" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "This transcript is licensed under the <a rel=\"license\" " "href=\"http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/nz/\">Creative " "Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 3.0 New Zealand License</a>." msgstr "" #. TRANSLATORS: Use space (SPC) as msgstr if you don't want credits. #. type: Content of: <div><div> msgid "*GNUN-SLOT: TRANSLATOR'S CREDITS*" msgstr "" #. timestamp start #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "Updated:" msgstr ""