# LANGUAGE translation of https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/the-law-of-success-2.html # Copyright (C) YEAR Free Software Foundation, Inc. # This file is distributed under the same license as the original article. # FIRST AUTHOR , YEAR. # #, fuzzy msgid "" msgstr "" "Project-Id-Version: the-law-of-success-2.html\n" "POT-Creation-Date: 2021-09-08 20:55+0000\n" "PO-Revision-Date: YEAR-MO-DA HO:MI+ZONE\n" "Last-Translator: FULL NAME \n" "Language-Team: LANGUAGE \n" "Language: \n" "MIME-Version: 1.0\n" "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=CHARSET\n" "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n" #. type: Content of: msgid "" "The Law of Success 2.0: An Interview with Richard Stallman - GNU Project - " "Free Software Foundation" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><h2> msgid "The Law of Success 2.0: An Interview with Richard Stallman" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><p> msgid "<em>This interview was conducted by Haegwan Kim in November 2010.</em>" msgstr "" #. type: Attribute 'alt' of: <div><div><img> msgid " [Photo of Richard Stallman] " msgstr "" #. type: Attribute 'title' of: <div><div><img> msgid "Richard Stallman" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>Haegwan Kim:</b>  First, you mentioned that discussing success is " "not useful for you and that's really interesting to me. In this interview " "mainly I want to talk about freedom and related issue. But before that, " "could you tell me the reason that talking about success is not useful to " "you?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>Richard Stallman:</b>  Because some activities are good for society " "and some are harmful for society. Of course, many are neutral. If person A " "knows how to aim for success, that may be good or bad for the rest of " "us. And I didn't set out to be a success. I didn't set out to make a lot of " "money or become famous. I set out to give software users freedom, which is a " "goal that deserves to be done. It's a goal that's important in its own right " "and I just happened to be the person trying to achieve it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "And to a certain extent I have succeeded. It didn't make me rich but it's " "success, to an extent, because at least there is now a large community of " "people who use and contribute to free software, so in that sense it's a " "success. But when I look at it I don't ask, am I a success? I ask, do users " "have freedom?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>HK:</b>  Great to hear that. Can you tell me why you are so in " "favour of the freedom?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  Partly it's because I resent being pushed around. I resent " "anyone giving me orders. Partly because I grew up in the US, where people " "were taught to think about freedom—or at least were. I don't know if " "any of the children are taught any of these things any more. Partly because " "not long before I was born, there was a World War against some horrible " "dictators and partly because I had the experience of having freedom in my " "use of computers when I worked at the MIT artificial intelligence lab in the " "70s." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "And so I was sensitised to notice the difference between free software, " "freedom-respecting software and user-subjugating software. So for ten years " "or so, my work was done on improving a free operating system, most of the " "parts of which had been developed at MIT by the group I was part of." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "So working, improving that system meant taking advantage of freedom all the " "time, so I came to appreciate freedom." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>HK:</b>  Okay, I see." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>RMS:</b>  But that's not quite the end." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>HK:</b>  Okay." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  Because the community fell apart in the early 80s and it " "was no longer possible to have the freedom. So I saw the contrast between " "living in freedom and losing freedom, and I found nonfreedom disgusting. So " "I decided to do something to bring freedom back." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>HK:</b>  Can you tell me how…? You are now trying to bring " "freedom back, which conversely means there's no freedom at the moment." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  Yes. With regard to software. First of all, this is a big " "question. In regard to software, proprietary software does not respect " "users' freedom because the program controls the users. If the users aren't " "free to change a program and do so either individually or in groups " "cooperating, then the program controls the users." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "Now, with typical proprietary software there is even a licence that says " "what users are allowed to do with the program and what they're not allowed " "to do and it can be as restrictive as the developer chooses to make it. For " "instance, there is a Microsoft program for managing webpages, websites, and " "its licence says it can't be used to publish anything that criticises " "Microsoft. So here, nonfree software takes away your freedom of speech." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "This is obviously intolerable. If you can't use your copy freely you can't " "control your computing. You can only do what you're told. But then the " "second level of control, through the source, through writing the code of the " "program; if you use a program whose code was written by somebody else and " "you can't see it or change it then that somebody controls what you do. He " "could make the program do nasty things to you, and even if you happen to " "find out, you still can't change it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "Finding out is difficult because you don't have the source code. Sometimes " "you will notice some sign that it's doing a nasty thing. Other times you " "won't notice. For instance, Windows has spy features which send information " "about the use of the machine to Microsoft and users can't see that this is " "happening. It was not easy to find out that these spy features are there, " "but people found out. They had to be somewhat clever, in some cases, to " "discover these spy features." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "And then there is a back door in Windows which allows Microsoft to forcibly " "install software changes. It doesn't have to ask permission, it can just " "sneak them in. So this is what I mean when I say a program controls the " "users. But even if there's no back door to allow the developer to install " "changes, it's still the case that the program does what the developer chose " "to make it do, and if you don't like that, you can't change it. So you're " "stuck with it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "So the back door is sort of icing on the cake for his power, because it " "means that even if he forgot to do something nasty, he can put it in " "retroactively. Without that kind of back door, he's limited to the nasty " "things that he thought of in advance." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "There are many proprietary programs that are widely used, that do " "surveillance; there are many that are specifically designed to restrict what " "users could do. Those restrictions which limit what users could do on the " "data in their machines are known as digital restrictions management or DRM, " "also sometimes referred to as digital handcuffs. So the point is, using " "those programs is like being handcuffed because you can't just move your " "hands around anywhere you like, the program is stopping you." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "And these are intentional features. Of course, programs also have bugs, and " "if you don't have the source code you can't fix the bugs. So the users, in " "order to be free, must have the source code, and they must be able to run " "their own modified versions of the source code in place of the original. And " "they have to be free also to distribute their modified versions. Because if " "you don't have that freedom then you could fix a problem for yourself but " "you couldn't fix it for anyone else, which means that each individual user " "would have to fix the problem. It would have to be fixed over and over and " "over." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "Also with the freedom to distribute your modified version, the people who " "don't know how to program can benefit." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>HK:</b>  I understand a bit about freedom for software now." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  So if I'm using the free program and I make a change in " "it, which I know how to do, then I could publish my modified version and " "then you. Perhaps you're not a programmer; you would still be able to get " "the benefit of the change I make. Not only that, you could pay somebody to " "change the program for you, or you could join an organisation whose goal is " "to change a certain program in a certain way, and all the members would put " "in their money, and that's how they would hire a programmer to change it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "So the definition of free software is the four freedoms that are needed for " "the users to have control of their computing. Freedom zero is the freedom to " "run the program. Freedom one is the freedom to study the source code and " "change it so it does your computing as you wish. Freedom two is the freedom " "to help others, which is the freedom to redistribute exact copies. And " "freedom three is the freedom to contribute to your community, which is the " "freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions. So these four " "freedoms ensure that the users, both individually and collectively, control " "the program. If the users don't control the program then the program " "controls the users. That's proprietary software and that is what makes it " "evil." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>HK:</b>  Sounds similar to Creative Commons—verifying the " "types of copyrights." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>RMS:</b>  Yes. Creative commons publishes various licences." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>HK:</b>  Yes. Do you agree with all those kind of activities on " "freedom?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>RMS:</b>  They don't have a position on that." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>HK:</b>  Position?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  Creative commons licences grant the users varying amounts " "of freedom. Two of their licences qualify as free by our criteria. Those " "are the creative commons attribution licence and the attribution share-alike " "licence, those. And I think maybe there's also the CC zero licence, which I " "usually don't think about. But I think those three are all free licences." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "The other creative commons licences do not go far enough to make the work " "free. However, I wouldn't say that all published works must be free. I think " "the published works that must be free are the ones that you use to do " "practical jobs. So that means software, recipes for cooking—and " "recipes for cooking are a good examples because, as I'm sure you know, cooks " "frequently share and modify recipes." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>HK:</b>  Sure, yes." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  And it would be a tremendous outrage to stop them. So in " "effect, cooks treat recipes as free. But let's look at some more works that " "are used for practical jobs. Educational works are used for practical jobs; " "to teach yourself or teach others. Reference works are used for practical " "jobs; to look up some information. And then there are text fonts, which we " "use to display or print text so it can be read. These are examples of works " "of practical use. These are not the only examples. I m sure you can find " "some more. Anyway, works of practical use are the ones that I believe must " "be free." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "However there are other kinds of works. For instance, there are essays of " "opinion and scientific papers and there are artistic works, and their " "contributions to society are of a different kind. They don't contribute " "through helping you do practical jobs. They are useful in other ways. So I " "draw different conclusions about them. I think the crucial conclusion for " "those other works is the freedom to non-commercially redistribute exact " "copies, in other words the freedom to share." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>HK:</b>  I'm interested in what you're doing. You're travelling " "around the world, like me, and you're contributing to others, not for " "yourself. And I love that way you live and I respect it so much. So I was " "just wondering, how you describe yourself?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>RMS:</b>  I describe myself as a free software activist." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>HK:</b>  Activist?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>RMS:</b>  Yes." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>HK:</b>  Activists means the ones who change the world?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  First of all, we haven't changed the whole world, not even " "in this regard, we've only changed a part of it." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>HK:</b>  Ok." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  As you can see, most computer users are still running " "proprietary systems such as Windows and Macintosh. And then if they have " "smartphones, those smartphones are running proprietary software and it " "typically has malicious features too. We have a long way to go to achieve " "victory. And the other thing is that what we have achieved, I did not " "achieve by myself. But I did start this movement." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>HK:</b>  Your activities have lasted for a long time, what would be " "your advice for being an activist?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  I was rather lucky, in a sense. I was in a position to do " "something that would forward my cause just working by myself. As other " "people showed up who were interested they could join. So it's generally good " "to look for a way to do things that way, in other words don't set out at " "first to make a large organisation and then begin to achieve something. " "Start doing things such that you alone, or a small group of people who " "support you, can achieve something, and by achieving something you can " "attract the attention of others who might want to join." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>HK:</b>  Great idea." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  In fact, I've read that advice in a book. I don't remember " "where, because that was a long time ago, but it fit what I had alreasy " "done. I can't say I thought of this as a general principle, but it did work " "well in my case." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "And the other thing is, don't design your activism with the idea that first " "you will raise a lot of money and then with the money you'll be able to do " "such-and-such, because on that path you almost never get anywhere. It's so " "unlikely you will succeed in raising that money that chances are you'll " "spend all your time trying and failing, and never start doing anything about " "your cause." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "So design your plans so that you can start doing things for the cause soon " "and that way you'll spend your time getting a certain amount done for your " "cause, which is better than nothing." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>HK:</b>  Fair enough." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  And of the ones who follow the raise-money-first path, " "those few that succeed in raising the money will find that their years of " "focusing on making that money have changed their goals. By the time they " "have that money they will be used to trying to do everything to get " "money. Few people have the ability to turn around and start directing their " "efforts toward something other than getting and keeping a lot of money." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>HK:</b>  Indeed. Can you tell me how did you gather great people " "when you launched the Free Software Foundation?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  I don't know if I always gathered great people. Some who " "came to us were good and some were not but I couldn't tell very well in " "advance, I didn't know how to judge that. But enough of them were good that " "they've managed to achieve a lot." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>HK:</b>  So did you gather people or did people automatically come " "to your place?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  Mostly people had seen what we had already done and found " "it interesting, and they would either help or, in some cases, come back when " "the FSF was hiring and we would say we were looking for someone to " "hire. Maybe we knew them already—who was a good programmer—by " "their contributing as a volunteer, so we knew if we hired them, they would " "be good." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>HK:</b>  I see. Thank you so much for your time. As a final " "question, I want to ask you about what we should do to spread the freedom." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  The big enemy of freedom is governments taking too much " "power over society. They do that with two excuses: the excuse is terrorists " "or child pornographers. But we have to realise that anti-freedom is a " "bigger danger than either of those. For instance, censoring the internet. " "We must not accept laws allowing punishment without a fair trial." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "The US set a horrible example when it started grabbing people from all " "around the world without a trial. Even now, Obama is continuing pushing " "military commissions, which are simply trials that don't live up to the " "standards for trials. They're not fair trials." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "We know a lot of the prisoners were in Guantanamo because somebody told a " "malicious rumour about them, and we can't rely on military tribunals to " "distinguish between real evidence and malicious rumour or the fact that " "somebody was tortured and eventually said whatever his torturer wanted." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "Right now, I'm told the Iraqi Government is still committing torture and I " "was told 30,000 prisoners who are without trial. This is a monster that the " "US created. Governments around the world keep looking for more power. The " "problem is, they have too much already." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>HK:</b>  That's true. How can we get the power back from the " "governments?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>RMS:</b>  I wish I knew." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "<b>HK:</b>  <i style=\"color: #505050\">[Laughter]</i>" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  I do know something about how we can teach people the need " "for this. Governments get their power by focusing people's attention on " "some secondary problem." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "For instance, in the US, how did the Government get its power to torture and " "imprison people and even just bomb them? The US practises targeted " "killing. There's a list of people who are marked for death and the US " "Government will drop bombs on them rather than try to arrest them. Now, how " "did all this get started? It's because the US focused people's attention on " "the secondary danger of terrorists carrying out the September 11th attacks " "in the US." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "Now, Bush didn't want an investigation of those attacks. Eventually he was " "forced to allow an investigation, but he weakened it and corrupted the " "investigators, so we can't trust the results. There has never been a proper " "investigation of how those attacks were carried out and who was " "responsible. So maybe it was planned by a bunch of terrorists as the " "Government says, or maybe Cheney was involved, as some other people " "say. Without a real investigation, we'll never know." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "But given that excuse, George Bush went on to demonstrate that tyranny is " "worse than terrorism, because those terrorist attacks killed under 3,000 " "people, and they were used as the excuse for the conquest of Iraq, in which " "4500 or so Americans were killed. So even if we only consider who's more " "dangerous to Americans, the answer is Bush." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>HK:</b>  <i style=\"color: #505050\">[Laughter]</i> People can't " "judge what's right or wrong when the condition is getting complex and " "excited too much…" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  And that ignored the million or so Iraqis that Bush killed " "and that Bush prevented us from counting. But by preventing them from being " "accurately counted, Bush made it possible for low estimates such as that of " "Iraq Body Count to seem plausible." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "I read recently some journalists went to look for oil buried just below the " "beach in Florida, and some sort of Federal agents ordered them not to, " "because they don't want news that the oil is there. They're hoping to cover " "up the effects so as to get it out of people's minds. And whether they're " "doing that for BP or for Obama or both, it's offensive to try to stop the " "public from knowing." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>HK:</b>  Do you believe that the internet has the possibility to " "change this phenomenon?" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "<b>RMS:</b>  That's a different question. The internet is useful for " "various things like sharing valuable information. But it's also useful for " "surveillance. So the internet can be used for good things and bad things. So " "how do we make sure that we are free to share? How do we limit the " "surveillance? It's a matter of stopping the Government from doing things " "that are unjust." msgstr "" #. TRANSLATORS: Use space (SPC) as msgstr if you don't have notes. #. type: Content of: <div> msgid "*GNUN-SLOT: TRANSLATOR'S NOTES*" msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><div><p> msgid "" "Please send general FSF & GNU inquiries to <a " "href=\"mailto:gnu@gnu.org\"><gnu@gnu.org></a>. There are also <a " "href=\"/contact/\">other ways to contact</a> the FSF. Broken links and " "other corrections or suggestions can be sent to <a " "href=\"mailto:webmasters@gnu.org\"><webmasters@gnu.org></a>." msgstr "" #. TRANSLATORS: Ignore the original text in this paragraph, #. replace it with the translation of these two: # #. We work hard and do our best to provide accurate, good quality #. translations. However, we are not exempt from imperfection. #. Please send your comments and general suggestions in this regard #. to <a href="mailto:web-translators@gnu.org"> # #. <web-translators@gnu.org></a>.</p> # #. <p>For information on coordinating and contributing translations of #. our web pages, see <a #. href="/server/standards/README.translations.html">Translations #. README</a>. #. type: Content of: <div><div><p> msgid "" "Please see the <a " "href=\"/server/standards/README.translations.html\">Translations README</a> " "for information on coordinating and contributing translations of this " "article." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "Copyright © 2010, 2021 Free Software Foundation, Inc." msgstr "" #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "" "This page is licensed under a <a rel=\"license\" " "href=\"http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/\">Creative Commons " "Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License</a>." msgstr "" #. TRANSLATORS: Use space (SPC) as msgstr if you don't want credits. #. type: Content of: <div><div> msgid "*GNUN-SLOT: TRANSLATOR'S CREDITS*" msgstr "" #. timestamp start #. type: Content of: <div><p> msgid "Updated:" msgstr ""